Nemesis theory - Planet X

[Kilroy]

Nemesis, ur name comes from the Nemesis theory, not the planet found beyond Pluto. The planet, called Quaor (something like that) is classified as a Kuiper Belt object along with the supposed hundreds of other wide orbitting rocks. Pluto would have been Kuiper belt object if it were discovered now.

Kilroy Was Here

[nemesis]

There is no recognised planet. There is a small object smaller than Pluto. Pluto is barely a planet and there is debate there. Yes my name comes from the theory. I like that theory but accept nothing.

[Survivor]

Wasn't the reason that it was called Nemesis because of the theory that its orbit disrupted comets and sent them into the inner solar system, hence causing periodic mass extinctions on Earth?

Searching...

Okay, the Nemesis theory postulates a companion star, a red or perhaps brown dwarf, that comes close enough to the solar system every 26 million years to throw a bunch of comets at us. It doesn't refer to a planet at all. The corresponding theory using a planet is referred to as the "Planet X" theory.

[nemesis]

Hence Nemesis the dark star not Nemesis the planet x.

[mac1]

Brian - I am glad you found the Niburu Stuff interesting as it is a subject I have been interested in for years, as a bit of an amateur skeptical parapsychologist. The theories of Nibiru are for the most part rash and unsubstansiated, but in some cases the evidence given is remarkably convincing given the outlandish subject matter. All the stuff relating to the Bible is just a case of people finding connections where none exist. If memory serves me correctly, the theory basically says that when you translate the Bible from its earliest known form all references to God are mistaken. The word used as God is Elohim, which apparently translates, not as "God", but as "Those who came from the sky". In the simplest example, "God created man", Becomes "Those who came from the sky created man". I'm sure you get the message.

"The B'nai Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the B'nai Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them -- they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name."
From The Interlinear Hebrew Bible - Genesis 6

Whereas all this Bible side of things can easily be dismissed. The Sumerians knowledge of Astronomy cannot. I think thos is the reason that even now, probably 4 or 5 years after reading about the theory, I still find it facinating. If they knew about Pluto, its entirely possibly (if still unlikely) that Nibiru exists. This is what really facinates me. If you strip away all the conjecture, theorey, and utter *****, you are still left with a race who had a grasp of Science and Space that was 4000 years ahead of itself.

As for it influencing your books, it brought a smile to my face to read this. It does make for a great story if nothing else. If you find the time to put it on here I would qute like to read it, or you could email it too me if you get a chance. If not don't worry about it. Also, where could I get a copy(s) of your books as I am quite interested in reading them.

Good "Those who came from the sky" it's late. I should get some sleep. LOL ;D

[Survivor]

Elohim is the plural form of Eloah (Allah in Arabic) which just means God. The given passage is a good example of why you shouldn't use the Interlinear Hebrew Bible. But your conclusion is right, there is no evidence in the Bible for this Niburu theory.

Not just the Sumerians, but many ancient peoples had knowledge of astronomy that was too advanced to be explained by conventional theory, including the predecessors of Abraham. Most of this knowledge has been lost since there seems to have been no practical reason for preserving it, but it is clear from the record that it once existed.

Generally, I would suspect that as each tradition died out, there were spurious additions and interpolations either to try to make the knowledge more "relevant" or just because that sort of thing happens when a tradition is waning. So none of the information that hasn't been confirmed by modern astronomy can be relied on, however suggestive it might be.

[brian]

I normally try to be a little more diplomatic than the word usage in the previous post - but, really, people awarding themselves titles as galactic emissaries/messiahs etc simply because they have had an idea, a little inspiration, and maybe even a website, just irritates the hell out of me! But I digress…

I remember reading a little about the subjects of "nemesis" and "planet x" a while back. Seems everything hinges on the apparent periodic extinctions and the perturbed orbits of outer planets. Although I found them interesting, I realised that was no actual need for another significant outer body.

One train of thought from this involved looking at our galaxy and realising that the relative positions of stars are not set as they orbit the galactic centre - so what if out solar system periodic closes on another, for example, the Centauri system? What if the perturbations and disturbance of the Oort Cloud objects was due to gravitational influence of our stellar neighbours if their galactic orbits sometimes pushed them closer?

In the end, in a moment of great inspiration, I stumbled across a different explanation far-encompassing theory. It takes me just over 600 words in emperor to make it a statement of fact. Hope it inspires - and I just bloody hope it's published soon because contemporary science is catching up enough to make the connection before myself. And as a speculative fiction writer, that simply won't do!

[Kilroy]

I answered this, planet X was identified, its call Quaor (or something like it) there are hundreds or thousands of objects orbiting the sun outside and around Pluto's orbit. These have been classified as Kuiper Belts Objects. The largest so far, Quaor, is half the size of Pluto. There think that there could be other abject out in the Belt the same size or larger than Pluto. Pluto's wacky orbit seems to agree that it is really one of those objects, not a formed planet. You got it now?

[brian]

So far as I remember, wasn't "Planet X" believed responsible for the perturbed orbit of the outer planets, and generally was expected to be a fairly substantial body? So far as I can see, the Kuiper Belt Object referred to does not fit this criteria. Assuming anyone still pays attention to the notion, has the notion of "Planet X" evolved into this scenario?

[mac1]

Now this is what I call a post, It started off as a question about a Star Trek movie and turned in a discussion about ancient Sumeria, Planet X, and Nemesis Theory.

I was wondering - did anyone ever find out when Nibiru is said to be returning to our solar system. It would be interesting to know. Also is that comet that was supposed to be on a possible collision course with the moon in 2026 still on its way, or has its trajectory changed. I havent heard any mention of it in years. Is it in fact Nibiru?? ???

[brian]

Darn it, New Scientist ran an article in December about Planet X, talking about a cliff in the distribution of objects in the Oort cloud that could possibly signify a rocky planet towards the size of earth. But...you've got to be a subscriber to access the article (and even if I could, no one here would have the permissions to read it unless they were also subscribers).

As for Nibiru - I used to read a lot of mysteries/supernatural type work, but this is a totally new one on me. Dogon, fine, Vulcan and Phaeton, fine - Planet X and Nemesis - fine. But Nibaru - not a sausage. All I can find online aer the self-proclaimed space emissaries, who seem to have simply copied language from other fringe issues and changed a few key words - nothing original, except the zealousness perhaps (though I've not checked up anything so closely online before in that field).

Meaning, that I cannot find any Mesopotamian reference to work from - would be great if I could before I have an online buddy who has a great knowledge of Mesopotamian language, so could verify the issue. Hey, I'm returning to one of his haunts tonight so I'll ask...

Meanwhile, mac1 et al - any potentially useful information online that narrows the issue?

Btw - the comet issue - 2026 was it? - believe that was supposed to be headed for earth (was it 2029??). Either way, it was a group of comet watchers crying wolf for funding, so far as appears...

Sorry, little rushed.

[mac1]

I read a book years ago that came free with a issue of Alien Encounters magazine. It was a bit overzealous, and a little too presumptuous in places (these things are very seldom written from a objective sceptical perspective) but it explained the Nibiru myth quite well. I will try and find the book and quote a few good paragraphs, but don't hold your breath as I haven't seen it in years (perhaps by some extradordinary coincidence someone reading this has a copy and would do the honours). Failing that I will have a look online for something less vague, and post a link.

Watch This Space.

[mac1]

There are some facinating (if somewhat dubiously overprecise) posts on this board:-

http://pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntforplanetxfrm63

This is quite a good summary of the issue, with loads of links (in green), explaining the many aspects of the "mythology":-

http://www.crystalinks.com/nibiru.html

I managed to find Paragon Publishings website, but there are no references to Alien Encounters magazine. Unfortunately after about 12 or 13 issues, it ran out of interesting topics and was cancelled after 26 issues. Paragon now produce DVD, PC, and games console magazines and nothing else. Perhaps they are ashamed of their open-minded past.

This is a very informative site :-

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Planet_X.html

As is this:-

http://xfacts.com/x.htm

Hope this helps

[brian]

Well, I asked someone I've known a long time online - he's got a most superb understanding of Mesopotamia and Semetic languages.

He made this simple reply:

- - - - - - - - -

"what I'd like to know is if "Niburu" has any fact in Mesopotamia? ... or is it plucked out of thin air by fringe groups?"

The latter.

- - - - - - - - -

I was going to leave it at that, but I checked out the sites. From what I know of various "mystery" topics (you know, from books on "the supernatural", etc), the first site reads a mere rehashing of different topics together. The XFact's site is almost as bad - like a politician is does everything except answer the question posed - ie, "what is Nibiru?"

However the second site read far more sober, and has given me some real information to play with - I don;t have time to surf properly now, but this should suffice:

"The claim is that it is described in a "Babylonian text called Enuma elish". The supposedly Sumerian name of "Nibiru" supposedly is interchangeable with "Marduk"."

Now I've got that it sounds like there's soemthing traceable. IT also sounds as if it's all taken as a particular reading from Mesopotamian mythology - ie, these are normally translated as actions of the gods, but a reinterpretation suggests otherwise...

...which means hopefully I've got something to work on.

But later - not time tonight.

[brian]

Just had a reply back from my Mesopotamian studies friend - he says that Marduk is Jupiter. If Nibiru is therefore meant to be Marduk, as per the second link mentioned, then using him as a source seriously compromises the theory.

I will try to verify...